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Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?

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Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:43:54 -0500
While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Becky Skidmore    Posted: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:10:28 -0400
Hi Karen: I submitted the following requests in Jan 2004. If I recall correctly, #5 was addressed in the full-release but not in the CD trial version I was using. Becky Becky Skidmore, BA MLS Information Specialist Canadian Coordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment (CCOHTA) 865 Carling Avenue, Suite 600 Ottawa, ON K1S 5S8 Tel: (613) 226-2553, ext. 228 Fax: (613) 226-5392 Email: /> http://www.ccohta.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- I have several product suggestions for your next version of RM. We are extremely heavy users of RM and are very reliant on your product. ***1. Increase the number of user-defined fields to at least 7-8. Of particular interest would be a computational field that could be used to calculated amounts. We would like to enter a dollar amount in at least one field and have already used up the 5 user-defined fields. If not, just having the extra fields would be fine as we could do a tab-delimited export into an Excel spreadsheet and do the calculations there. Would a sort of any field that containing only numbers or currency values sort correctly? We might want to sort this field in order of increasing costs for our interlibrary loan requests. We currently "bury" the cost information in user-defined field #3 where we record the "history" of the interlibrary loan request. We need to provide an administrative function so we can track finances too. 2. Allow mandatory date fields to accept information in the OTHER date field when the numerical date field is left empty (or allow for the display of OTHER date information even when the numerical date field is populated. This would allow us to deal with unknown, ambiguous or range dates. E.g., [n.d.], [1999?], etc. I also want the ability to display a date range (e.g., for a conference) when we are dealing with conference literature, posters, etc. I am not using a text field (e.g, the conference name field) for this information but instead the primary date field to indicate the date range. Also, we use the secondary date field to capture Internet accessed dates for certain types of documents and occasionally this is expressed in non-numerical terms. I currently have the 2ndary date field as non-mandatory to allow for display of information in the OTHER field but I am reluctant to turn off the mandatory setting for the primary date field in order to capture this info. 3. Increase the number of synonyms allowed for each periodical term in the index. Some of the databases are changing their data entry and new variations are emerging, yet we still need to accommodate records from earlier times. 4. Offer security at both the record and database level. We have some confidential databases that we have placed in a limited-access directory but occasionally we deal with confidential records that we don't want to accidentally insert as part of a bibliography (Or would you just use the "note" function in RM10)? Perhaps alllowing the use of e.g., Red font to highlight a record (as confidential, or for some other pourposes, such as follow up required) within the RM database would be sufficient. We would want this font to appear in any bibliography generated to alert us to the fact that a confidential record is being used. 5. There are several errors in the RM-supplied "Vancouver" style. We have made some adjustments that you could use but we have removed the extra fields as an option from all other Reference Types but generic (which we don't normally use). Of particular note is that the in-text citation should be a superscript # and page numbers use the abbreviated page range. I would be happy to share the adjustments we've made if you are interested. -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: 2 Jul 2004 10:44 AM To: /> Subject: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

Re: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Marinus J Broekman    Posted: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:03:19 -0400
WE NEED A SHORTCUT KEY TO START A PUBMED SEARCH!! (emphasis intentional). We need also to establish shortcut keys for that search menu similar to the ones in the "local" searches. WE NEED TO HAVE REFMAN REMEMBER THE LOCATION OF DATABASES AS WELL AS THE LOCATION OF PDF FILES. (emphasis again intended; I raised these points during beta testing.) We do not need RefMan 12, we need 11.0.0.1 Han Broekman At 10:43 AM 7/2/2004, you wrote: >While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking >to each other directly. > >I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 >and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind >someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! > >Cheers, > >Karyn Popham >Reference Wrangler >Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research >School of Public Health >University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665 ---------- M. Johan Broekman, PhD Associate Research Professor of Biochemistry in Medicine Hematology-Oncology, VA NY Harbor Healthcare System / Weill Medical College of Cornell University 423 East 23rd Street, Room 13025W New York, NY 10010 Phone: (212) 686-7500, ext 7494 FAX: (212) 951-3389 email: />

Re: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Lois Ann Scheidt    Posted: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 13:01:06 -0500 (
Allow those of us that use Ref Mgr on a single PC without networking to set our database default to "Read Write Exclusive." It's a real pain to have to close and reopen everytime you want to edit terms. On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Popham, Karyn wrote: > > While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking > to each other directly. > > I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 > and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at > or post here--your comments may remind > someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! > > Cheers, > > Karyn Popham > Reference Wrangler > Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research > School of Public Health > University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston > 713-500-9665 > > > Lois Ann Scheidt MPA MIS SPHR CCP Doctoral Student School of Library and Information Science Indiana University Bloomington IN USA Webpage: http://www.loisscheidt.com Blog: http://www.professional-lurker.com

Re: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: M Johan Broekman, PhD    Posted: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:33:53 -0400
Lois' suggestion is a BIGGY with me as well. Han Broekman You wrote on 02:01 PM 7/6/2004: >Allow those of us that use Ref Mgr on a single PC without networking to >set our database default to "Read Write Exclusive." It's a real pain >to have to close and reopen everytime you want to edit terms. > ><snip Karyn's request for comments> > >Lois Ann Scheidt MPA MIS SPHR CCP >Doctoral Student >School of Library and Information Science >Indiana University >Bloomington IN USA >Webpage: http://www.loisscheidt.com >Blog: http://www.professional-lurker.com ---------- M. Johan Broekman, PhD Associate Research Professor of Biochemistry in Medicine Hematology-Oncology, VA NY Harbor Healthcare System / Weill Medical College of Cornell University 423 East 23rd Street, Room 13025W New York, NY 10010 Phone: (212) 686-7500, ext 7494 FAX: (212) 951-3389 email: />

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Lois Ann Scheidt    Posted: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 18:37:34 -0500 (
I would also like to have the ability to add publication types rather than being forced to rename one of the existing types. I would also like to see customizable pulldowns added as much as possible for things like Publication City, etc. Lois Ann Scheidt MPA MIS SPHR CCP Doctoral Student School of Library and Information Science Indiana University Bloomington IN USA Webpage: http://www.loisscheidt.com Blog: http://www.professional-lurker.com

Re: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Vincent Vinh-hung    Posted: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:31:31 +0200
Dear Karyn, Many thanks for your suggestion which might help to reduce frustration (Refman is an excellent program -> the small defects make it more frustrating -- what is the idiom for that -- a fleck is more visible on a nice face that on an ugly face?). (Background: I'm using RM10. So far there seems to be nothing that convince to update, the flecks that I suffer from don't seem to have been fixed in RM11 -- no, cannot download a demo -- demos tend to leave things behind that one can't get rid, they've already broken a computer -- so, no demo -- either I hear or read specs that are satisfying, and pay, or nothing). 1) When "Generate Bibliography", there is a tab "Databases used" which appears. The associated help says: " Generate Bibliography Dialog Box (Databases Tab): Databases: Lists the databases are referenced in the document. " Nothing else. It merely "Lists", but it do nothing. Please suggest to allow using the Databases Tab, for example allow to associate database(s) with a manuscript. 2) Please make the Internet Search work with ISI Thomson's Web of Science. The hospital here have access to WoS. But I've never been able to make it work despite answers and help from support. I manually search WoS, download list of references to local hard disk, then import manually to RM. After 3 times, one gets tired of that, too cumbersome, too dissuasive -- it felt like RM or WoS were saying: "we allow you use, but we discourage your use"! 3) This is unrelated with RM. Nevertheless I'll say it to RM support: please make it work with RefViz. I purchased RefViz (no demo!), but there was no way to make them mutually recognize, RefViz didn't saw RM databases, and of course RM didn't know about RefViz. (I sent feedback to RefViz). Again, thank for the list. Vincent "Popham, Karyn" wrote: > > While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking > to each other directly. > > I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 > and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at > or post here--your comments may remind > someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! > > Cheers, > > Karyn Popham > Reference Wrangler > Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research > School of Public Health > University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston > 713-500-9665 -- Vincent Vinh-Hung Oncologisch Centrum, AZ-VUB 101 Laarbeeklaan 1090 Jette Belgium tel +32 2 477 6041 fax +32 2 477 6212 mobile +32 477 788 900 />

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Lee Lim    Posted: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:16:33 +1000
Adding more shortcut is one thing; increased structure flexibility is quite another. It requires greater user involvement and responsibility and it may lead to a less robust outcome. Chong Lee Lim Department of Neurology Westmead Hospital Westmead NSW 2145 Australia Tel: +612 9845 6834 Fax:+612 9635 6684 >>> 7/7/2004 9:37:34 AM >>> I would also like to have the ability to add publication types rather than being forced to rename one of the existing types. I would also like to see customizable pulldowns added as much as possible for things like Publication City, etc. Lois Ann Scheidt MPA MIS SPHR CCP Doctoral Student School of Library and Information Science Indiana University Bloomington IN USA Webpage: http://www.loisscheidt.com Blog: http://www.professional-lurker.com __________________________________________________________________ This electronic message and any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message would you please delete the message and any attachments and advise the sender. Western Sydney Area Health Services (WSAHS) uses virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any email or attachment. This email may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify WSAHS immediately. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority states them to be the views of WSAHS.

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Gary Novack    Posted: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 01:05:08 -0700
second that...Gary Novack -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of M. Johan Broekman, PhD Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:34 PM To: /> Subject: Re: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? Lois' suggestion is a BIGGY with me as well. Han Broekman You wrote on 02:01 PM 7/6/2004: >Allow those of us that use Ref Mgr on a single PC without networking to >set our database default to "Read Write Exclusive." It's a real pain >to have to close and reopen everytime you want to edit terms. > ><snip Karyn's request for comments> > >Lois Ann Scheidt MPA MIS SPHR CCP >Doctoral Student >School of Library and Information Science Indiana University >Bloomington IN USA >Webpage: http://www.loisscheidt.com >Blog: http://www.professional-lurker.com ---------- M. Johan Broekman, PhD Associate Research Professor of Biochemistry in Medicine Hematology-Oncology, VA NY Harbor Healthcare System / Weill Medical College of Cornell University 423 East 23rd Street, Room 13025W New York, NY 10010 Phone: (212) 686-7500, ext 7494 FAX: (212) 951-3389 email: />

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Peter Malling    Posted: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:31:54 +0200
I would like the Pages field in in-text citation to be working. So I need a tag for use in OS, like <CitedPages> in Endnote, where I can indicate how cited pages should be shown, and when writing page numbers in the in-text citation edit box, the page numbers should come in the text, according to the OS. /Peter.

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Weir, Sheila    Posted: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:59:27 -0700
Thanks Karyn, Here is my list: 1. Date that the record is added to the DB is input is visible in the record.(Staff like to search on date input or to view which ones they may have entered versus other staff) 2. Ability to open up databases in read/ write exclusive (as expressed previously) 3. Ability to show the full directory path of the databases when opening from the "Open Database" list. 4. Ability to add new reference types with full ability to rename and base the new reference type on an existing type. 5. An updated list of index medicus periodical synonym terms that correspond to those that are used with PubMed (it is about -50% correct) 6.Don't have any fields in a record default to be mandatory (date, journal name, etc). I will think of a few others. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:44 AM To: /> Subject: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Peter Malling    Posted: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:58:42 +0200
I really miss an "edited book" type, where the author is changed to editor, and all the sorting stuff etc. works without me having to enter the names both in author fields and editor fields, etc. It works like a dream in Endnote. But not in RM. Peter. __________________________ Peter Malling MA Psychology and Computer Science Research Fellow / PhD student Knowledgelab Department of Organization and Management University of Southern Denmark Email: /> Tel (direct): +45 65503187 Campusvej 55 DK-5230 Odense M Denmark www.sdu.dk / www.knowledgelab.dk

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:46:52 -0500
Dear Peter, This one I fixed in ours, sacrificing one of the other "Reference Types" to make "Book, Edited" and changing the name of the other to "Book, Authored". No problems. But it does seem ludicrous this particular reference type doesn't come pre-loaded in the software! Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Malling Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:59 PM To: /> Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? I really miss an "edited book" type, where the author is changed to editor, and all the sorting stuff etc. works without me having to enter the names both in author fields and editor fields, etc. It works like a dream in Endnote. But not in RM. Peter. __________________________ Peter Malling MA Psychology and Computer Science Research Fellow / PhD student Knowledgelab Department of Organization and Management University of Southern Denmark Email: /> Tel (direct): +45 65503187 Campusvej 55 DK-5230 Odense M Denmark www.sdu.dk / www.knowledgelab.dk

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:54:43 -0500
Dear Sheila, Number 6, at least, is under your control. Go to "Field and Type Edit" (requires read/write exclusive access) and uncheck the boxes under "M" (for mandatory) for each field. I think you can then click on "Update field for all types" and it will uncheck "M" wherever it occurs, but I'm not sure of this... Understandably, RefID and RefType HAVE to be mandatory--a database program can't work without each entry having some sort of unique ID. RefID is the unique ID, of course, and RefType tells the software what field labels to use for that item and which variation of a specific output style to use. But I think you can get rid of everything else... Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665 -----Original Message----- From: Weir, Sheila Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:59 PM To: /> Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? 6.Don't have any fields in a record default to be mandatory (date, journal name, etc). I will think of a few others. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:44 AM To: /> Subject: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:55:55 -0500
Many thanks to EVERYONE for their specific and concrete points! I've gotten through my fifteen-grants-due-the-same-day madness and am trying to catch up on the rest of my life... more later! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Becky Skidmore    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:56:12 -0400
I second Sheila's first request. I approached Tech Support about this and another matter, below, a long time ago but was just told it was not possible, although they would explore "workarounds". In addition to also knowing when a record was created or modified, I also feel that the "Reprint" date is misleading. Once a record is changed to "In File", the date always defaults to the current date when the record is opened and editing options are greyed out. You only have editing capabilities when the status is "On Request". Because we use RM for interlibrary loan, we would have liked the "On File" date info to reflect the date the item was received (or provide another date field for tracking this). We already re-use the secondary date field to record the accessed date for Web-based materials, so it is not available to us. Becky Skidmore, BA MLS Information Specialist Canadian Coordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment (CCOHTA) 865 Carling Avenue, Suite 600 Ottawa, ON K1S 5S8 Tel: (613) 226-2553, ext. 228 Fax: (613) 226-5392 Email: /> http://www.ccohta.ca -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Weir, Sheila Sent: 7 Jul 2004 4:59 PM To: /> Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? Thanks Karyn, Here is my list: 1. Date that the record is added to the DB is input is visible in the record.(Staff like to search on date input or to view which ones they may have entered versus other staff) 2. Ability to open up databases in read/ write exclusive (as expressed previously) 3. Ability to show the full directory path of the databases when opening from the "Open Database" list. 4. Ability to add new reference types with full ability to rename and base the new reference type on an existing type. 5. An updated list of index medicus periodical synonym terms that correspond to those that are used with PubMed (it is about -50% correct) 6.Don't have any fields in a record default to be mandatory (date, journal name, etc). I will think of a few others. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:44 AM To: /> Subject: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Weir, Sheila    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:33:32 -0700
Thanks Karyn, I already do that but in terms of training staff and decreasing annoyance (and increasing staff buy-in), it sure would be nice if certain fields (other than those you mentioned) weren't mandatory especially because the databases don't automatically open in read/write exclusive on the network and staff training issues are always paramount. What we have recently done is create a Template.rmd database with all the database changes on it that we would like to see. For example field name changes that are modified to adapt to what a lot of our records need such as changing "User Def 1" to "File location" (i.e. who's office is the hard copy located in). My current goal is to try and push staff to use the template.rmd database and then rename it to their appropriate database name. I might just increase confusion, but so many of the field names are ambiguous I get questions on what information goes into which field ALL The time. Sheila -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 8:55 AM To: /> Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? Dear Sheila, Number 6, at least, is under your control. Go to "Field and Type Edit" (requires read/write exclusive access) and uncheck the boxes under "M" (for mandatory) for each field. I think you can then click on "Update field for all types" and it will uncheck "M" wherever it occurs, but I'm not sure of this... Understandably, RefID and RefType HAVE to be mandatory--a database program can't work without each entry having some sort of unique ID. RefID is the unique ID, of course, and RefType tells the software what field labels to use for that item and which variation of a specific output style to use. But I think you can get rid of everything else... Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665 -----Original Message----- From: Weir, Sheila Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:59 PM To: /> Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? 6.Don't have any fields in a record default to be mandatory (date, journal name, etc). I will think of a few others. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:44 AM To: /> Subject: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? While the list was down, some of us got so lonely we started talking to each other directly. I'm trying to put together a master list of "bugs and features" in 10 and 11 and suggestions for 12. You can reach me off-list at or post here--your comments may remind someone else of something that drives THEM nuts! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Pastel, Ross H LTC USAMRIID    Posted: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:34:02 -0400
Karyn, Another need is for Editors, City, and Publisher to have the program automatically give you choices (i.e., similarly to authors. As you start to type, the authors in the reference db automatically come up). This would help tremendously, as City and Publisher have to be typed over and over. Editors should access the authors, as many of these are the same. If you are typing in an edited book, then you retype the information for each chapter. Also have a problem in that editors for a book don't seem to list properly when you output them to an article. I end up putting editors in as authors as well as editors. Thanks! Ross ========================================= Ross H. Pastel, Ph.D. Lieutenant Colonel, Medical Service Corps, U.S. Army Deputy Commander, Safety, Biosurety, Operations, Plans, and Security USAMRIID 1425 Porter St Fort Detrick, MD 21702-5011 301-619-4394 (Ph) 301-619-4625 (Fx) -----Original Message----- From: [ /> ] On Behalf Of Popham, Karyn Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:56 AM To: Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? Many thanks to EVERYONE for their specific and concrete points! I've gotten through my fifteen-grants-due-the-same-day madness and am trying to catch up on the rest of my life... more later! Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9667

AW: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Gerhard Englert    Posted: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:39:32 +0200
... I am not sure, if this subject was talked about before, but I could not find any mail on [field 15] or [15 issue]. What bothers me, is that at least this field is ambigious in the sense, that it is used for serials and periodicals as well. RefTypes like THESIS may contain "books", "books in series[field23] with a volume[field15]", or "articles" in journals[field11] and issues[field15 again]. If you have an output styles for THESIS, you have to put [field 15] to a certain position. But then, one or the other referece will be printed wrong, since RM can not distinguish between a book and a journal (within a reftype THESIS). Therefore is either a reftype THESIS useless or [field 15] has to be split. What one needs is [15] for journals and a field [23a] for series - or what do you do with numbered series (which are countless)??? best regards Gerhard Englert gerhard.englert_at_fal.de

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Becky Skidmore    Posted: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:35:29 -0400
Gerard: For our purposes, the Ref Type "Thesis" was indeed useless or redundant. Depending on the output style you are using, you could elect to use different Ref Types depending on the format of the thesis. I have actually removed it as an active ref type in our database structure to avoid having people use it accidentally. Because we use Vancouver format almost exclusively, we put "book"-type Theses in the "Book, Whole" Ref Type. There is no requirement to include the level of thesis and the granting institution just becomes the publisher. We follow the title with "[dissertation]" or can also adapt the Series field (Field 23) to act as a type of descriptor and have the information inserted and formatted correctly that way (although we are stretching the meaning of that field). The other alternative is to use one of the Miscellaneous fields (e.g., field 31) for that info for Book, Whole and customize your output accordingly. When using Vancouver, if a thesis appeared in a journal, I would just use the "Journal" Ref Type and insert [dissertation] following the title since the font would output correctly. I've never actually had a thesis in that format, however. Becky Becky Skidmore, BA MLS Information Specialist Canadian Coordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment (CCOHTA) 865 Carling Avenue, Suite 600 Ottawa, ON K1S 5S8 Tel: (613) 226-2553, ext. 228 Fax: (613) 226-5392 Email: /> http://www.ccohta.ca -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of Gerhard Englert Sent: 14 Jul 2004 11:40 AM To: /> Subject: AW: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? ... I am not sure, if this subject was talked about before, but I could not find any mail on [field 15] or [15 issue]. What bothers me, is that at least this field is ambigious in the sense, that it is used for serials and periodicals as well. RefTypes like THESIS may contain "books", "books in series[field23] with a volume[field15]", or "articles" in journals[field11] and issues[field15 again]. If you have an output styles for THESIS, you have to put [field 15] to a certain position. But then, one or the other referece will be printed wrong, since RM can not distinguish between a book and a journal (within a reftype THESIS). Therefore is either a reftype THESIS useless or [field 15] has to be split. What one needs is [15] for journals and a field [23a] for series - or what do you do with numbered series (which are countless)??? best regards Gerhard Englert gerhard.englert_at_fal.de

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:23:53 -0500
Subject: RE: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? Karyn, Another need is for Editors, City, and Publisher to have the program automatically give you choices (i.e., similarly to authors. As you start to type, the authors in the reference db automatically come up). This would help tremendously, as City and Publisher have to be typed over and over. Editors should access the authors, as many of these are the same. If you are typing in an edited book, then you retype the information for each chapter. Also have a problem in that editors for a book don't seem to list properly when you output them to an article. I end up putting editors in as authors as well as editors. Thanks! Ross

RE: Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12?
Author: Popham, Karyn    Posted: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:04:53 -0500
Gerhard, I truly do not understand this--and I do not think it is a matter of your command of English, which is infinitely better than my command of Dutch! [grin] How can a thesis "contain" either a book or an article? Remember, "RefType" is not dependent on what sort of thing an item is, but on the sort of information one needs to describe it bibliographically. So if someone's thesis was published as an article, one simply uses the "journal article" format, with if one wishes the designator [Thesis] after the title, much as one connotes abstracts and letters to the editor. The RefType of Dissertation/Thesis was put together to handle the usual situation, which is a an item which is submitted to a school, may be available in a bound form at that school's library, may be available from UMI, but isn't "published" in the way a book or article is. Does this help any, or can you elaborate what you mean with a concrete example so I can understand the problem better? Cheers, Karyn Popham Reference Wrangler Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research School of Public Health University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston 713-500-9665 -----Original Message----- From: Gerhard Englert Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:40 AM To: /> Subject: AW: <RefMan> Comments on RefMan 11 and Needs for RefMan 12? ... I am not sure, if this subject was talked about before, but I could not find any mail on [field 15] or [15 issue]. What bothers me, is that at least this field is ambigious in the sense, that it is used for serials and periodicals as well. RefTypes like THESIS may contain "books", "books in series[field23] with a volume[field15]", or "articles" in journals[field11] and issues[field15 again]. If you have an output styles for THESIS, you have to put [field 15] to a certain position. But then, one or the other referece will be printed wrong, since RM can not distinguish between a book and a journal (within a reftype THESIS). Therefore is either a reftype THESIS useless or [field 15] has to be split. What one needs is [15] for journals and a field [23a] for series - or what do you do with numbered series (which are countless)??? best regards Gerhard Englert gerhard.englert_at_fal.de ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

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