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Text-Oriented Databases (fwd
Author: Bob Carlson    Posted: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:17:25 -0500
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:17:25 -0500 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: Bob Carlson Subject: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) There had been discussion of creation of an askSam newsgroup, but it was decided that there would not be sufficient volume. I suggested the possibility of a more general textbase newsgroup that could be for various kinds of textbase products, including askSam and ProCite. The following is the response. I agreed to forward it to the ProCite list for consideration. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:15 PST From: To: Subject: Text-Oriented Databases Dear Bob: I was the one who originally suggested that we have a newsgroup some time ago. At that time, the rest of the folks were about evenly divided over the idea (those who commented), and nothing else came of it. Your idea (including more of this type of software) is an excellent idea. Is there a ProCite maillist? If so, perhaps you could contact those people . . . ??? I personally think ANYTHING that deals with those issues (text-oriented databases) would be of great value. The other database newsgroups deal with issues that are often not germane to the types of programs you mentioned. I don't use anything but askSam (for text/database work), but I am wedded to it. With that program I can do most of my work (although, since I'm used to Word, etc., I don't). I use askSam to archive sermons (I'm a minister) and collect research for books I hope to write, and to track email, and to track church membership, and to sort out preferences that our members have (what night can you meet, etc.), etc. etc. etc. It is so flexible and powerful that I have all but stopped using the other database programs; except for the fact that our worship leader is an Access addict, and has all our songs cataloged in that program, I am sure that we would also use it to produce our music, etc. The ability to store, search and retrieve text as any of these programs do is extremely helpful to all of us who deal with words or other forms of communication. I hope that others in the group think it is a good idea. I do. Steve Bradley

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd
Author: Fred Levy    Posted: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:53:57 -0800
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:53:57 -0800 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: Fred Levy Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) In-Reply-To: I'm all in favor of adding discussions of textbases to the list. Indeed, I also use askSam, to keep track of notes, to run a mailing list... If only it's report facilities were as easy to use as its search mechanisms! If only other manufacturers would even try! Fritz Levy On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Bob Carlson wrote: > There had been discussion of creation of an askSam newsgroup, but it was > decided that there would not be sufficient volume. I suggested the > possibility of a more general textbase newsgroup that could be for > various kinds of textbase products, including askSam and ProCite. The > following is the response. I agreed to forward it to the ProCite list > for consideration. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:15 PST > From: > To: > Subject: Text-Oriented Databases > > Dear Bob: > I was the one who originally suggested that we have a newsgroup some time > ago. At that time, the rest of the folks were about evenly divided over the > idea (those who commented), and nothing else came of it. Your idea > (including more of this type of software) is an excellent idea. Is there a > ProCite maillist? If so, perhaps you could contact those people . . . ??? > I personally think ANYTHING that deals with those issues (text-oriented > databases) would be of great value. The other database newsgroups deal with > issues that are often not germane to the types of programs you mentioned. I > don't use anything but askSam (for text/database work), but I am wedded to > it. With that program I can do most of my work (although, since I'm used to > Word, etc., I don't). I use askSam to archive sermons (I'm a minister) and > collect research for books I hope to write, and to track email, and to track > church membership, and to sort out preferences that our members have (what > night can you meet, etc.), etc. etc. etc. It is so flexible and powerful > that I have all but stopped using the other database programs; except for > the fact that our worship leader is an Access addict, and has all our songs > cataloged in that program, I am sure that we would also use it to produce > our music, etc. The ability to store, search and retrieve text as any of > these programs do is extremely helpful to all of us who deal with words or > other forms of communication. I hope that others in the group think it is a > good idea. I do. > Steve Bradley >

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd
Author: Bob Carlson    Posted: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 04:52:54 -0500
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 04:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: Bob Carlson Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) In-Reply-To: On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Fred Levy wrote: > I'm all in favor of adding discussions of textbases to the list. Indeed, > I also use askSam, to keep track of notes, to run a mailing list... If > only it's report facilities were as easy to use as its search > mechanisms! If only other manufacturers would even try! Fred et al.: It is not being proposed that either that the procite list or the asksam list be a place for discussing general textbase issues. On a couple of occasions, discussions have arisen on the askSam list about the possibility of doing a newsgroup for askSam, and I believe there may have been similar proposals with respect to ProCite. The conclusion was that the traffic volume for askSam did not/would not warrant a newsgroup devoted to askSam. I believe a similar conclusion may have been reached with respect to a ProCite newsgroup. I am familiar with at least one situation where a newsgroup echos the contents of a listserv. The newsgroup is comp.groupware.groupwise; I don't remember the name of the listerv. I pointed this out on the askSam listserv and suggested that, while the volume for askSam alone might not justify a newsgroup, perhaps a general newsgroup for textbase products would have sufficient volume. I suppose such a newsgroup could either be a stanadlone thing or also an echo for listservs that wanted to be echoed there. Not everyone has access to newsgroups, and surely not everyone that has joined a listserv wants to see additional traffic coming from a newsgroup. For the latter reason, a standalone newsgroup for textbase products might be preferable to an echo type of setup. With a newsgroup, you go there and participate as the need or urge strikes. With a listserv, the stuff comes in whether or not you have the time to look at it right now. I suppose that most users of this listserv may be familiar with newsgroups. I make that point for the benefit of those who may not be. Bob Carlson

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply
Author: TERRY MISENER    Posted: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 06:32:32 -0500
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 06:32:32 -0500 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: TERRY MISENER Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply Since we are all obviously interested in databases to make our work easier, i.e., Pro Cite, askSam sounds like a very interesting program and one which I am not at all familiar. Tell us more about it, cost, and why you prefer it to many other options. It is always great to get consumer reports. I always need to get more organized in my life and anything that helps like being able to make make notes and then find them would be great. Sounds like it has a free text type of approach. So how is this different from a word processor? Obviously, it is a data base so must have fields and all of that. So, would really like to hear more!! Terry

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply
Author: TERRY MISENER    Posted: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 06:38:18 -0500
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 06:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: TERRY MISENER Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply I agree that I like newgroups much more than listservs, but guess that they probably are much more work for the moderator??? and as was said not everyone has access, though I find that situation to be greatly decreasing since most folks who have access to internet also have a newsreader capability through the commercials, a university or other gateways. Listservs can really clog up the e-mail if you are into many. Terry

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd
Author: Michael A Dover    Posted: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:23:50 -0500
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:23:50 -0500 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: "Michael A. Dover" Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) In-Reply-To: Among the suggestions I have made for enhancements to Procite are ensuring its ability to function both as a dedicated biblioghrapic database that is field oriented and as a textbase. With the growing use of optical character recognition and voice recognition systems, word crafters will want to pair a word processor with a textbase program. While a variety of programs exist for indexing and keeping track of massive amounts of text (and procite needn't concern itself with that), the needs of the indiviidual user and small group who wants to be able to keep track of records not exceeding, say, the size of a journal article or book chapter can and should be met by procite enhancements that expand record and field size, number of fields, etc.. AskSam (i haven't seen its windows version) is clearly a leader in textbase programs, but i shied away from it because I didn't want to have to reinvent the bibliographic capabilities by developing an AskSam application that did this, not I supppose would most folks. The current windows program meets most of my needs but in the near future people will need a program which can be a databse that stores text in quanities the size of writeable cd-roms, as they scan, download and otherwise acquire substantial text databases for various research purposes. It would be REALLY nice if Procite could serve both the small-scale text-base and bibliographic database function and could continue to integrate well with dedicated word processors (or should I say continue to better integrate with dedicated word processors, something which would require better hooks to wordperfect, spell checkers, etc.). If we have a text base discussion here, we could just label the entries so that non-interested folks could delete them....

Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply
Author: Fred Levy    Posted: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:57:09 -0800
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:57:09 -0800 Reply-To: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List Sender: PRO-CITE The Personal Bibliographic Software Discussion List From: Fred Levy Subject: Re: Text-Oriented Databases (fwd) -Reply In-Reply-To: It may help if I explain what I do with askSam -- that way I won't sound like an employee of the company producing it. I've been using the program since its DOS days, primarily as a freeform text base. It will accept text of any length. You have the choice of turning texts into field-based or non-field-based. If you wished to set up a bibliography textbase, using fields, it would be easy to do. If you just throw in great gobs of undigested notes (and I do), it makes it very easy to locate any text containing a particular string. If I wish to locate every piece in my textbase in which there's a reference to (say) the poet and statesman, Sir Fulke Greville, all I do is enter "Greville" and the documents come up. Very quickly. I don't have a mammoth textbase: 500KB to 1000KB. But those with really big ones also report it's fast. In its Windows form, askSam imports text from Winword and WPWin; it also exports it. Use the clipboard. Use the exporter. In addition, I use it to run a mailing list: I'm treasurer for a group of book people. Here I use fields. As I have it set up, I can generate mailing-list labels; I can generate a list of who paid up recently, or of who still owes dues; etc. This particular chore goes well with askSam. What the program does not do so well is more complex exports. I've tried to make it produce formatted footnotes. No hope, not with anything out of the ordinary. Perhaps someone at the company could work up a sophisticated bibliography program from askSam (I suspect it's possible), but I don't have the time or expertise. For that sort of thing, use a dedicated program like Pro-Cite or Endnote. But just to find things, to put order in a disorderly life, askSam is a good program Fritz Levy On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, TERRY MISENER wrote: > Since we are all obviously interested in databases to make > our work easier, i.e., Pro Cite, askSam sounds like a very > interesting program and one which I am not at all familiar. > Tell us more about it, cost, and why you prefer it to many > other options. It is always great to get consumer reports. I > always need to get more organized in my life and anything > that helps like being able to make make notes and then find > them would be great. Sounds like it has a free text type of > approach. So how is this different from a word processor? > Obviously, it is a data base so must have fields and all of > that. > > So, would really like to hear more!! > > Terry >

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