[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Oakley, Philip SELEX UK Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:36:45 +0000

All version of Mathcad (11 onward) are using the basic C_Dilla licence protection mechanism (as I understand it).

The problem is not as bad as you suggest. If you have it registered and suitably backed up you can restore Mathcad [I think you need a full disk image with disk ID]. If Mathsoft are still trading you can get a re-registration manually. If they have packed up, we all have problems.....

You should check directly with mathsoft/mathcad support on what items need to be backed up to restore a full system.

Philip

> From: Wayne Covington "mailto:wcovington"
> Sent: 05 January 2006 04:06
> To: Mathcad Discussion List
> Subject: [mathcad] Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla
>
> Does Mathcad 13 use C_Dilla?
>
> I am hoping it does not. If it does, it is not of much use to me.
>
> (I could be in for a lot of grief if at some future time I could not re-register. Picture being sued by a client because a problem cannot be fixed because the software environment with the baseline version of Mathcad cannot be reconstructed.)
>
> Wayne
> << File: footer >>

********************************************************************
This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.
********************************************************************

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Mark Smith Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:51:35 -0000

It occurs to me that a security disabled (cracked) version of MathCAD has
significant advantage over the original in this respect, as you have a legal
copy maybe this would be an equitable solution if mathsoft doesn't oblige?
:-)
mark

From: Oakley, Philip (SELEX) (UK) "mailto:philip.oakley"
Sent: 11 January 2006 09:37
To: Mathcad Discussion List
Subject: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

All version of Mathcad (11 onward) are using the basic C_Dilla licence
protection mechanism (as I understand it).

The problem is not as bad as you suggest. If you have it registered and
suitably backed up you can restore Mathcad [I think you need a full disk
image with disk ID]. If Mathsoft are still trading you can get a
re-registration manually. If they have packed up, we all have problems.....

You should check directly with mathsoft/mathcad support on what items need
to be backed up to restore a full system.

Philip

> From: Wayne Covington "mailto:wcovington"

> Sent: 05 January 2006 04:06
> To: Mathcad Discussion List
> Subject: [mathcad] Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla
>

> Does Mathcad 13 use C_Dilla?
>

> I am hoping it does not. If it does, it is not of much use to me.
>

> (I could be in for a lot of grief if at some future time I could not
re-register. Picture being sued by a client because a problem cannot be
fixed because the software environment with the baseline version of Mathcad
cannot be reconstructed.)
>

> Wayne
> << File: footer >>

********************************************************************
This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.
********************************************************************

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Pergande, Albert N Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:50:34 -0500

I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
software with the cdilla system can interfere.

I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

While cracked software is a serious mortal sin, guaranteed to send you
to catholic hell no matter what your religion is or isn't, I've always
found it much more reliable.

Or so people tell me.

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Austin, Mike Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:06:46 -0000

I have created images and restored them to the same physical disk (not necessarily with the same drive partitions) and it has worked. I have not tried restoring to another physical disk. As I plan to be upgrading my portable disk soon, this may mean I run into problems. If there was a hack for c_dilla, I would feel entitled to use it because I've paid my dues.

STRESSWORK
Mike AUSTIN
on behalf of AIRBUS-UK
for Department - ESASU
NTC D2 09J

Phone: +44 (0)117 936 2688
Fax: +44 (0)117 936 5474
Mailto: "Mike.Austin"

From: Pergande, Albert N "mailto:albert.n.pergande"
Sent: 11 January 2006 13:51
To: Mathcad Discussion List
Subject: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
software with the cdilla system can interfere.

I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

While cracked software is a serious mortal sin, guaranteed to send you
to catholic hell no matter what your religion is or isn't, I've always
found it much more reliable.

Or so people tell me.

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message.

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Chris Whitford Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:47:39 +0000

It's a pity Mathsoft doesn't use flexlm. It still ties the software to the
machine, but it uses just one ID, usually the MAC address, which doesn't
change unless you scrap the computer. I have 5 or 6 flexlm licensed
products and it always works reliably. Perhaps all companies should
register their licensees with a third party to protect users should they
cease trading?

Chris

At 08:50 11/01/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
>drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
>software with the cdilla system can interfere.
>
> I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
>offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

+ Chris Whitford
+ Research Fellow, University of Leicester, Space Research Centre,
+ Physics and Astronomy Department, University Road, LEICESTER LE1 7RH, UK
+ Tel: +44 (0)116 252 3496, Fax: +44 (0)116 252 2464
+ email: "chw" http://www.star.le.ac.uk/

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Gray, Steven G Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:52:31 -0500

I agree. Software companies which insist on using software copy
protection schemes that diddle with the operating system deserve to
fail. I'd rather be tied to a dongle if the company just has to have
protection.

From: Pergande, Albert N
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:51 AM
To: Mathcad Discussion List
Subject: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
software with the cdilla system can interfere.

I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

While cracked software is a serious mortal sin, guaranteed to send you
to catholic hell no matter what your religion is or isn't, I've always
found it much more reliable.

Or so people tell me.

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Jan Theodore Galkowski Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:47:18 -0500

Just to correct: MAC addresses are network things. There's one per
network card. So, for instance, if a notebook has both a wireless-G and
a cable attachment, there are typically two network cards, each having
their own MAC. Similarly, if separate cards for wireless-B and
wireless-G, two MACs.

Moreover, MACs can be changed using networking utilities which interpose
themselves between the MAC request and the actual MAC channel. While
this inevitably does degrade security when abused, the odds of guessing
a MAC address on, say, a WEP-protected wireless router are pretty
small. There are better security measures, like WAP, but they affect
bandwidth.

Finally, the best security is layered, so a LAN oughtn't rely upon just
a MAC protection at its periphery. There ought to be firewalls on
machines within the LAN, on the router itself, and the firewalls ought
to discriminate based upon MACs within the LAN, too. It goes without
saying there needs to be AV and anti-spam on each node, too.

I don't know what C_Dilla does, but most purveyors of software use
things like keys to authorize. Mathsoft's problem might be they are
trying to use a one-size-fits-all solution, and users' problems are they
are too knee-jerk in their protection of "privacy". Mathsoft could
simply check Internet connectivity and poll to a central server from
within Mathcad, conveying the product's serial and internal numbers. If
Internet weren't available, they could queue in some way until it were.

Few people are completely disconnected from the Internet at all times
these days, except maybe for the spooks on secure and military networks.

And, they could backup their Internet authorization using a friendlier
key-based approach, like Kaspersky uses.

But, of course, this is just my opinion,

- Jan

Chris Whitford wrote:

> It's a pity Mathsoft doesn't use flexlm. It still ties the software to
> the machine, but it uses just one ID, usually the MAC address, which
> doesn't change unless you scrap the computer. I have 5 or 6 flexlm
> licensed products and it always works reliably. Perhaps all companies
> should register their licensees with a third party to protect users
> should they cease trading?
>
> Chris
>
> At 08:50 11/01/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
>> drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
>> software with the cdilla system can interfere.
>>
>> I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
>> offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.
>
>

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Oakley, Philip SELEX UK Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:51:56 +0000

Mathcad does use FlexLM for the enterprise edition.
It can also be used for node locked PCs as well [i.e. home usage from a corporate licence - the deal is 2 home licences for each corporate floating licence as long as you are in maintenance!!]

I suggest you call support and ask for a FlexLM version if needed.

Philip

From: Chris Whitford "mailto:chw"
Sent: 11 January 2006 14:48
To: Mathcad Discussion List
Subject: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

*** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization,
either from an external partner or the Global Internet.
Keep this in mind if you answer this message.

It's a pity Mathsoft doesn't use flexlm. It still ties the software to the
machine, but it uses just one ID, usually the MAC address, which doesn't
change unless you scrap the computer. I have 5 or 6 flexlm licensed
products and it always works reliably. Perhaps all companies should
register their licensees with a third party to protect users should they
cease trading?

Chris

At 08:50 11/01/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the hard
>drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
>software with the cdilla system can interfere.
>
> I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
>offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

+ Chris Whitford
+ Research Fellow, University of Leicester, Space Research Centre,
+ Physics and Astronomy Department, University Road, LEICESTER LE1 7RH, UK
+ Tel: +44 (0)116 252 3496, Fax: +44 (0)116 252 2464
+ email: "chw" http://www.star.le.ac.uk/

********************************************************************
This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.
********************************************************************

[mathcad] Re: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Steve Bradbury Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:51:26 GMT

Chris Whitford "chw" wrote:

> It's a pity Mathsoft doesn't use flexlm. It still ties the software to the
> machine, but it uses just one ID, usually the MAC address, which doesn't

They do. http://www.mathsoft.com/services/corporate_licenses/How_license_mgmt_works.asp

--
Steve Bradbury
"steve.bradbury"

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the
originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this
email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority,
states them to be the views of Alan Dick & Company.
________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Slezak, Lloyd Posted: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:32:03 -0800

Our company runs network licensing with Mathcad and that is all based on
FlexLM.

From: Chris Whitford "mailto:chw"
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:48 AM
To: Mathcad Discussion List
Subject: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

It's a pity Mathsoft doesn't use flexlm. It still ties the software to
the machine, but it uses just one ID, usually the MAC address, which
doesn't change unless you scrap the computer. I have 5 or 6 flexlm
licensed products and it always works reliably. Perhaps all companies
should register their licensees with a third party to protect users
should they cease trading?

Chris

At 08:50 11/01/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>I think cdilla writes data to an otherwise inaccessible area on the
>hard drive, so an image of the disk may not be sufficient. Thus, other
>software with the cdilla system can interfere.
>
> I have had cdilla fail unexpectedly, one while in the math soft
>offices. They fixed it immediately, but it gives me the creeps.

+ Chris Whitford
+ Research Fellow, University of Leicester, Space Research Centre,
+ Physics and Astronomy Department, University Road, LEICESTER LE1 7RH,
+ UK
+ Tel: +44 (0)116 252 3496, Fax: +44 (0)116 252 2464
+ email: "chw" http://www.star.le.ac.uk/

[mathcad] Re: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Aldo P Solari Posted: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:24:54 +0000

This "C_dilla" debate reminds me of a couple of colleagues who spent
quite a budget in acquiring licenses (Mac+PC) for the
"type-writer-kind-of-mathworx-package-blaehhhj" ...

and a year afterwards they found themselves running the cracked
version because they neither got any further free updates from
"mathworxos" nor any money to buy the rather expensive updates. This
is a tramp.

C_dilla is a tramp, as well and the situation is so ridiculous that
people who bought licenses are working with what I understand is a
C_dilla clean hacked version. An amazing story.

Others crossed over to MAPLE 10.

Others never left the FORTRAN environment and, now, (the iteration
folks) they are lauging at us as they got multi-threading
functionalities, etc.

And the funny thing with all of this is that no protection scheme can
stop the hackers. Bad boys.

Forecasting ?: this matter (out of greed) will go so long that, any
day, in the near future, we will be using the CHICOM_MATHCAD at 10
$/each, programmed by an army of mathematicians such as those who
discovered bad holes in the latest PGP.

Just my opinion.

Cheers!

W/best wishes,

Aldo P. Solari (fisheries biologist)

"asolari" (academic matters)
"aldo.p.solari" (private matters)

Home: www.ulpgc.es/webs/ffresearch-solaris
(U. of) Las Palmas, Canary Islands [12/01/2006, 15:57 GMT]

Original message:

"steven.g.gray" wrote [11/01/2006, 14:52]:

GSG> I agree. Software companies which insist on using software copy
GSG> protection schemes that diddle with the operating system deserve
GSG> to fail. I'd rather be tied to a dongle if the company just has
GSG> to have protection.

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Mike Austin Posted: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:13:31 +0000

"Austin, Mike" "Mike.Austin" writes
>
>I have created images and restored them to the same physical disk (not
>necessarily with the same drive partitions) and it has worked. I have
>not tried restoring to another physical disk. As I plan to be upgrading
>my portable disk soon, this may mean I run into problems. If there was
>a hack for c_dilla, I would feel entitled to use it because I've paid
>my dues.
>

I just upgraded my disk on my IBM T42p, and c_dilla has now de-activated
my installation of Mathcad 13. It will not automatically activate as I
have two installations (the other on the desktop PC). Activation has to
be done manually. But, as it is a Saturday, there is no response to the
email I was asked to send to "activation" This is no use for
someone who wants to get work done for Monday morning!

It seems that c_dilla uses information from the disk in IDE0 - the first
boot disk. The IBM has a removable bay where one can put a second disk -
IDE1. I copied an image from my old disk to my new disk, then I swapped
them over, booting from the new disk. Mathcad was not activated. Then I
booted from the old disk on IDE1. Mathcad was still not activated. So I
physically swapped them back, booting from my old disk on IDE0, and this
worked. I suppose it might work by booting from the new disk in IDE1 but
I have work to do for Monday and I don't want to risk it!

Now from Mathcad's support FAQ:

"Q: Is activation required should Mathcad need to be reinstalled on the
same PC?
A: In general, no. If the same version of Mathcad is reinstalled on the
same PC or laptop, Mathcad will remain activated. Even in cases where
Mathcad needs to be reactivated, reinstallation on the same PC will not
count as an additional activation against the user's two machine
total."

So a new hard disk seems to constitute a new PC. It makes more sense to
activate from the motherboard, if one has to use this method.

It seems to me that this c_dilla method should be scrapped. At least, in
the meantime, registered users should be allowed a few days leeway for a
new activation code to be supplied by Mathsoft. Could this be done by an
automatic process on the server, without a patch to Mathcad?

--
Mike Austin

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Mike Austin Posted: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:31:58 +0000

Mike Austin "mike" writes
>
>I just upgraded my disk on my IBM T42p, and c_dilla has now de-activated
>my installation of Mathcad 13. It will not automatically activate as I
>have two installations (the other on the desktop PC).

Well, having got the request code from "Manual activation", I spoke with
Adept Scientific who sorted me out OK. Apparently, the request code goes
wrong sometimes and doesn't produce the right number. Haven't heard from
MathSoft who I emailed originally. But then they wake up later, being on
the other side of the pond to me.

So, I have learned not to upgrade hard disks or have a hard disk failure
out of office hours - until they get a user-friendly licensing system.

--
Mike Austin

[mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla

Author: Chris Whitford Posted: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:21:48 +0000

Although most people don't like them, dongles solve many of these problems.
They don't depend on the machine and can be moved easily between machines
(e.g. home and office, or lent to someone else). They are unlikely to fail
but if they do they can be replaced. On a parallel port they are a pain (I
have a server with 3 dongles piggy-backed together sticking out of the
back), but now that USB is universal it is trivial to add a passive hub to
take any number of them. All companies which in the past provided parallel
port dongles should offer a free upgrade to USB ones, and this might
restore their credibility.

Chris

+ Chris Whitford
+ Research Fellow, University of Leicester, Space Research Centre,
+ Physics and Astronomy Department, University Road, LEICESTER LE1 7RH, UK
+ Tel: +44 (0)116 252 3496, Fax: +44 (0)116 252 2464
+ email: "chw" http://www.star.le.ac.uk/

Previous by date: [mathcad] Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla, Wayne Covington
Next by date: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla, Mark Smith
Previous thread: [mathcad] Re: genfit method, Paul Oxby
Next thread: [mathcad] RE: Mathcad 13 and C_Dilla, Oakley, Philip SELEX UK

Ready to buy?

Mathcad: single user licence

Add to shopping basket

$ 1,195.00

Upgrade to Mathcad 14 from version 12 or 13

Add to shopping basket

$ 325.00

Upgrade to Mathcad 14 from version 11, 2001i, 2001 or 2000

Add to shopping basket

$ 425.00

Featured Downloads

Mathcad 14 demo

Mathcad 14 Brochure

Mathcad or Excel?

Mathcad Customer Story: Man B&W Diesel

Mathcad Customer Story: Stork Fokker Aerospace

Mathcad White Paper - Moving beyond the limitations of spreadsheets

Product Reviews

"Our work ranges from complex medical imaging research to large-scale mapping and diagrams and we need a tool that is able to handle anything we investigate. With Mathcad, we are able to manipulate and analyse our data quickly while at the same time documenting our work, for sharing and publication. We also use it for pilot studies conducted in support of research grant applications. It is an end-to-end tool for research and development."
Dr. Kenneth Castleman, President of Advanced Digital Imaging Research (ADIR), Houston, Texas

"Mathcad is an integral product for my work... With Mathcad, itís easy to disseminate design calculations because the documents look like real math. Thereís very little I canít do in Mathcad. The main benefits come from the format, which resemble a typed set of calculations. These programs are easier to develop by engineers and easier for others to follow and review since the logic is expressed in a familiar manner. The format is what places Mathcad head and shoulders above other programs of a similar function."
Andre Pavlov, Structural Engineer, Florida Department of Transportation