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EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?

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EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:46:13 -0400 (
Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't (though I think it's not too difficult). I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic "threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is easy. Have a look at all the software and software package-related newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters comp.mail.eudora. mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica comp.text.tex comp.graphics.apps.photoshop comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker comp.cad.autocad comp.cad.cadence comp.databases.filemaker comp.groupware.lotus-notes and there are literally hundreds more Anyone responsive to this? ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:14:36 -0400 (
I am game, but would have to get over a learning curve, since it is a long time since I worked thru a newsgroup. Is it moderated somehow? Leanne -----Original Message----- From: /> On Behalf Of /> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:46 AM To: /> Subject: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't (though I think it's not too difficult). I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic "threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is easy. Have a look at all the software and software package-related newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters comp.mail.eudora. mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica comp.text.tex comp.graphics.apps.photoshop comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker comp.cad.autocad comp.cad.cadence comp.databases.filemaker comp.groupware.lotus-notes and there are literally hundreds more Anyone responsive to this? ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:14:31 -0400
I think this is a great idea! I utilize newsgroups more than any other internet application. Add to the benefits listed below that messages can contain files if we choose to allow that (users could swap filters, etc.). Eddie > -----Original Message----- > From: /> On Behalf > Of /> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:15 PM > To: /> > Subject: RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? > > I am game, but would have to get over a learning curve, since it is a > long time since I worked thru a newsgroup. Is it moderated somehow? > > Leanne > > > -----Original Message----- > From: /> > On Behalf Of > /> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:46 AM > To: /> > Subject: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? > > > Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and > competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet > newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't > (though I think it's not too difficult). > > I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I > find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions > that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think > newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic > "threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs > and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and > unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with > answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the > postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is > easy. > > Have a look at all the software and software package-related > newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters > > comp.mail.eudora. > mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica > comp.text.tex > comp.graphics.apps.photoshop > comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker > comp.cad.autocad > comp.cad.cadence > comp.databases.filemaker > comp.groupware.lotus-notes > > and there are literally hundreds more > > Anyone responsive to this? > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Re: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:19:10 -0400
I disagree, I don't think it is a good idea. I don't see how messages in a newsgroup are any easier to read. Your email software can easily thread the discussions for you. Newsgroups are often massively spammed and your email address, once posted to a newsgroup, becomes the target of spammers. I find that discussions degrade quickly on newsgroups. Mailing lists seem to work better. It is (or used to be) very difficult to get a newsgroup started. There is a voting procedure. You must submit the idea for your newsgroup to a specific newsgroup designed for this purpose. A series of votes are taken and if approved you then have permission to create it. Then you must find someone with system access to send out a "control message" to create the group. Unless you know someone personally this can be pretty much impossible. EndNote nicely sponsors this list for us and I think it works fine. I don't see any point to changing to a newsgroup. Laura At 12:46 PM 07/04/05 -0400, you wrote: >Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and >competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet >newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't >(though I think it's not too difficult). > >I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I >find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions >that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think >newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic >"threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs >and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and >unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with >answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the >postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is >easy. > >Have a look at all the software and software package-related >newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters > > comp.mail.eudora. > mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica > comp.text.tex > comp.graphics.apps.photoshop > comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker > comp.cad.autocad > comp.cad.cadence > comp.databases.filemaker > comp.groupware.lotus-notes > >and there are literally hundreds more > >Anyone responsive to this? ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Re: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:11:43 -0400
Hi: Just my opinion, but I use this list a lot for information and don't find it's email form a problem. If it doesn't look interesting I delete it. If people do want to move to a Usenet newsgroup I hope it is something easy to use. Frankly my life is complicated enough without having to learn a new software program. Patricia Patricia Herrling Library & Information Literacy Instruction Coordinator Steenbock Library 550 Babcock Dr. Madison, WI 53706 Phone: 608-263-6373 Email: /> wrote: >Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and >competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet >newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't >(though I think it's not too difficult). > >I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I >find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions >that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think >newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic >"threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs >and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and >unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with >answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the >postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is >easy. > >Have a look at all the software and software package-related >newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters > > comp.mail.eudora. > mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica > comp.text.tex > comp.graphics.apps.photoshop > comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker > comp.cad.autocad > comp.cad.cadence > comp.databases.filemaker > comp.groupware.lotus-notes > >and there are literally hundreds more > >Anyone responsive to this? > > >________________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email >Security System. > >______________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >______________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:20:12 -0400
I have considered and reconsidered. Following conversations with some of our compatriots who generously answer questions here, this works, it is a single site, we rarely get spammed, the archives are available and reasonably easy to search, I don't have to "visit" anywhere else, and I wouldn't want to moderate a new site, judging by the spam I see on some of the groups! (in fact, we wouldn't have to start one, see bit.listserv.endnote which is full of junk including an notice from Niles (a ways back) about this group.- a good example of the kind of stuff I wouldn't want to moderate out!) Also, there is a notice out there for another listserv for endnote. How would we let the community and particularly new users know about it? Anyway, I for one think this works just fine. This is where I plan to stay. The only problems arise when it goes 'missing in action' on occasion, and then I just contact techsupport, and they (eventually) fix it. Leanne ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Re: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:07:04 -0400
Although I have an interest in this group, I would never bother to access the usenet group unless I actually had a specific question. Since I'm still camped out on 6.0, still waiting for a good reason to "upgrade", I would be effectively out of the discussion. Of course, if the point is to limit participation to those who "really care," a usenet group is probably fine. dale wrote: > I disagree, I don't think it is a good idea. I don't see how messages in a > newsgroup are any easier to read. Your email software can easily thread > the discussions for you. Newsgroups are often massively spammed and your > email address, once posted to a newsgroup, becomes the target of > spammers. I find that discussions degrade quickly on newsgroups. Mailing > lists seem to work better. > > It is (or used to be) very difficult to get a newsgroup started. There is > a voting procedure. You must submit the idea for your newsgroup to a > specific newsgroup designed for this purpose. A series of votes are taken > and if approved you then have permission to create it. Then you must find > someone with system access to send out a "control message" to create the > group. Unless you know someone personally this can be pretty much impossible. > > EndNote nicely sponsors this list for us and I think it works fine. I > don't see any point to changing to a newsgroup. > > Laura > > > At 12:46 PM 07/04/05 -0400, you wrote: > >>Let me inquire just once more: Anyone out there interested and >>competent to convert (or supplement) this email list as a Usenet >>newsgroup? I would volunteer to try this if I knew how, but I don't >>(though I think it's not too difficult). >> >>I'll refrain from going over again in detail all the benefits that I >>find for newsgroups over mailing lists for the kind of discussions >>that go on in this list, but I subscribe to a lot of both and I think >>newsgroups are much more usable: ease of reading, automatic >>"threading", easy suppression of all the irrelevant virus-scan msgs >>and header stuff, read when you want, instant subscribe and >>unsubscribe, wider audience, wider list of people to respond with >>answers to queries -- and in any case automatically sending out the >>postings to a newsgroup to an associated "digest-ified" email list is >>easy. >> >>Have a look at all the software and software package-related >>newsgroups available on your server, e.g. just for starters >> >> comp.mail.eudora. >> mac comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica >> comp.text.tex >> comp.graphics.apps.photoshop >> comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker >> comp.cad.autocad >> comp.cad.cadence >> comp.databases.filemaker >> comp.groupware.lotus-notes >> >>and there are literally hundreds more >> >>Anyone responsive to this? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email > Security System. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:08:05 -0400
Hello all One of the most popular (widely-used) tools is phpbb (latest version 2, http://www.phpbb.com/) which is open source and can be easily installed and run on php-enabled web sites. Some web hosts have it configured for you by default and you only need to go in as an administrator to set up various things like title of your board, who are the administrators, moderators and members. You can control the board such that members can choose to display their email address or not, and whether "guests" (people who have no account, or who have yet to log in) can see which bits of the forum (e.g. only the "Welcome" and "How to join" sections but not the messages). I know email readers can sort messages for you. The benefits of such a system like the phpbb are that messages are stored on the server, you can allow attachments, and you can allow different types of permissions (allow for administrators, different types moderators etc.). Old messages can be re-grouped under different subject and/or move between forums. Once the board is set up, there's not much you need to do except perhaps allowing new members (even this can be an automated process). The demo here http://www.phpbb.com/demo.php gives you a good impression of the system, but you can change the colour scheme, almost all the text, etc. etc. Another tool similar to phpbb is "Simple Machines", SMF, http://www.simplemachines.org/. Obviously you need to be online to access such forums, and dial-up users may find that the forum takes longer to load compared to reading a single email message. There's bound to be some pros and cons. I am happy to set up a test phpbb / smf on the web for people to try out. This can be done in less than 1 hour. For this test, a domain name or web host fees is not necessary. Regards David ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:22:27 -0400
I don't have a problem with an email list - in fact I prefer it to either a newsgroup or a php forum. The reason is simple - I have my email on all day long and filter my email automatically to various folders. It's very easy to open up a folder which contains list messages and read it when I have time, so my inbox doesn't get clogged up. One list I was on for a few years switched to a web-based forum a few months back. It is a lot more effort to go to the website to read the messages posted there and hence I go there far less often than I used to. Similarly with web archives of email lists - I search them when I need to, but for day-to-day monitoring of what's going on with some piece of software, I find a quick browse within my email app far easier. I also know just how my message is going to appear - and that on the archive the email addresses are made illegible to spiders. So I don't get anxious about yet more spam. It would be a pity to fracture the EndNote support community. Sure things could be improved - like using informative subject lines in emails - especially for those who only read the digest - and not waiting for messages to be sent out so long - perhaps the various agents of ISI in different time zones around the world could share the administration of the list to get round this, but in the main I'm happy with the way it works. Duncan =================================================== Duncan Branley /> Research Applications Officer, Information Services Goldsmiths' College, University of London New Cross, LONDON SE14 6NW Tel: +44 (0)20 7919 7708 Fax: +44 (0)20 7919 7556 =================================================== ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:59:49 -0400
Subject: RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? I don't have a problem with an email list - in fact I prefer it to either a newsgroup or a php forum. The reason is simple - I have my email on all day long and filter my email automatically to various folders. It's very easy to open up a folder which contains list messages and read it when I have time, so my inbox doesn't get clogged up. One list I was on for a few years switched to a web-based forum a few months back. It is a lot more effort to go to the website to read the messages posted there and hence I go there far less often than I used to. Similarly with web archives of email lists - I search them when I need to, but for day-to-day monitoring of what's going on with some piece of software, I find a quick browse within my email app far easier. I also know just how my message is going to appear - and that on the archive the email addresses are made illegible to spiders. So I don't get anxious about yet more spam. It would be a pity to fracture the EndNote support community. Sure things could be improved - like using informative subject lines in emails - especially for those who only read the digest - and not waiting for messages to be sent out so long - perhaps the various agents of ISI in different time zones around the world could share the administration of the list to get round this, but in the main I'm happy with the way it works. Duncan

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:00:21 -0400
If the mailing list was moved to a newsgroup or a web-based medium, I simply wouldn't participate or monitor. Newsgroups are open to having your e-mail address creamed by spammers and web based forums are too cumbersome to use (my opinion). With a mailing list, the messages arrive in my mail box and I can filter them into subfolders. It is then easy to review the topics and reply as necessary. Overall, it means that I am going to one place to review the things that I wish to monitor rather than going to web sites all over the place. A compromise might be RSS however, I am not able to access RSS feeds currently from through my university's gateway. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Errol Thompson Information Systems Massey University Wellington Phone +64 4 801 2794 x 6531 ------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Re: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:10:59 -0400
Let me add a vote to keep it as a mailing list. With digest mode, I get one email per day at most, and I can read it at my leisure. Newsgroups expire after a while. If I'm away for a couple of weeks, the messages could be all gone. Yes - they are archived somewhere, but how would I know if I missed something? Also, the signal to noise ratio on many newsgroups is awful. This email list (particularly in digest form) has only EndNote related stuff in it. The current list is not broken. Please don't "fix" it. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:12:52 -0400
Subject: RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? > > >I don't have a problem with an email list - in fact I prefer it to either a >newsgroup or a php forum. The reason is simple - I have my email on all day >long and filter my email automatically to various folders. It's very easy >to open up a folder which contains list messages and read it when I have >time, so my inbox doesn't get clogged up. > >One list I was on for a few years switched to a web-based forum a few >months back. It is a lot more effort to go to the website to read the >messages posted there and hence I go there far less often than I used to. >Similarly with web archives of email lists - I search them when I need to, >but for day-to-day monitoring of what's going on with some piece of >software, I find a quick browse within my email app far easier. > >I also know just how my message is going to appear - and that on the >archive the email addresses are made illegible to spiders. So I don't get >anxious about yet more spam. > >It would be a pity to fracture the EndNote support community. Sure things >could be improved - like using informative subject lines in emails - >especially for those who only read the digest - and not waiting for >messages to be sent out so long - perhaps the various agents of ISI in >different time zones around the world could share the administration of the >list to get round this, but in the main I'm happy with the way it works. > >Duncan > >

RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:08:11 -0400
Subject: RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? I am also satisfied with both the email version of the list and with the archives. I haven't used newsgroups, but I know how to use my email and check it at least once daily. I suspect the reason for the occasional bursts of messages is that someone IS moderating and messages consequently get held up until they are reviewed; if this is the case, an in-between level of moderation might be more appropriate -- new members are moderated until they have made a few posts, while people who have made a few problem-free posts are no longer moderated -- I've been on large lists where this has worked very well, provide protection from people who join up only to spam-and-run, and quick response times for regular users. Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: /> Behalf Of /> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:22 AM To: Endnote-Interest; List Post Subject: RE: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup? I don't have a problem with an email list - in fact I prefer it to either a newsgroup or a php forum. The reason is simple - I have my email on all day long and filter my email automatically to various folders. It's very easy to open up a folder which contains list messages and read it when I have time, so my inbox doesn't get clogged up. One list I was on for a few years switched to a web-based forum a few months back. It is a lot more effort to go to the website to read the messages posted there and hence I go there far less often than I used to. Similarly with web archives of email lists - I search them when I need to, but for day-to-day monitoring of what's going on with some piece of software, I find a quick browse within my email app far easier. I also know just how my message is going to appear - and that on the archive the email addresses are made illegible to spiders. So I don't get anxious about yet more spam. It would be a pity to fracture the EndNote support community. Sure things could be improved - like using informative subject lines in emails - especially for those who only read the digest - and not waiting for messages to be sent out so long - perhaps the various agents of ISI in different time zones around the world could share the administration of the list to get round this, but in the main I'm happy with the way it works. Duncan

Re: EndNote-Interest as a Newsgroup?
Author:    Posted: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:24:44 -0400
>One list I was on for a few years switched to a web-based forum a few >months back. It is a lot more effort to go to the website to read the >messages posted there and hence I go there far less often than I used to. Aside from the difference between being handed a daily digest or having to go out for digging around in the bulletin board (forum), is the tendency of forums to burry useful threads in chapters that one did not expect to carry gems. One could come up with an auto-poster of the digests to a newsgroup or forum ofcourse, to serve many masters... ard ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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