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Exporting Japanese characters

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Exporting Japanese characters
Author: Helen Kilpatrick UOW    Posted: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:08:40 +1000
Does anyone know how to export Japanese text, perfectly legible in
Endnote 5
libraries, into Word98 where it becomes gobbledegook.

Neither have I been able to copy and paste (Japanese text) from Word to
Endnotes or vice versa despite it being legible
in both.

Helen K

Re: Exporting Japanese characters
Author: MORI Koichi    Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:26:23 +0900
Dear Helen (and those who use Japanese with Endnote),
At 11:08 +1000 03.4.26, Helen Kilpatrick UOW wrote:
>Does anyone know how to export Japanese text, perfectly legible in
>Endnote 5
>libraries, into Word98 where it becomes gobbledegook.
I assume you are using a Mac on System 9 or 8.
Though I use Mac OS X now, this was problematic to me, too. There are
several issues involved. Below are what I recall and may not be exact,
but I hope you can get the idea.

If you set the library and display fonts something Japanese, you
probably do not have individual references with Japanese font. Since
those references will be pasted into Word without font or language set
explicitly, they obey the global settings in the normal template of
Word, which probably are for English in your case. This mismatch makes
all Japanese text treated as English in Word.

Solution 1: Change fonts of all Japanese references explicitly as
Japanese (Saimincho, chu-gothic etc) other than Osaka. Osaka would be
interpreted as a System font, like Geneva, and would not be explicitly
used when copying and pasting. You have to do this on all the entry
items (authors, title, journal name) of each reference. If you set the
reference display font as Times or other alphabetic font, you can
catch the omission easily, since you cannot read them as Japanese.

Solution 2:
(1) before pasting into Word, put the keyboard (or input method)
in the Japanese mode,
(2) set the font at the cursor to be something Japanese,
(3) then paste with the format selected as text.
This way, you lose nice format (bold, italic etc), but you get
Japanese readable. This method also works when you already have the
gibberish in Word. You can copy the unreadable part to the clipboard
and do the same steps. In some other word processors, you may have to
set national code properly (I do not think this applied to Word98).


>Neither have I been able to copy and paste (Japanese text) from Word to
>Endnotes or vice versa despite it being legible
>in both.
 The other way is more problematic. Endnote 5 is sometimes
very stubborn. I myself have not fully grasped how Endnote works
(or does not work) re. Japanese.
(1) You probably have to make the Japanese input method open in
the Japanese HIRAKANA input mode,
(2) and to set the font as something Japanese in Endnote, before pasting.
(3) If above fails, your chances may be better if you go through
a text only editor (YooEdit may be handy) to remove any style
information from Word before pasting into Endnote: you first paste
in an editor, and copy the same text and then paste it in Endnote,
after (1) and (2). Simply cutting the gibberish and re-pasting within
Endnote does not work. It probably keeps track of font information in
the clipboard even if you follow the steps (1) and (2).

By the way, copying Japanese into EndNote 6 works better. However, you
cannot enter Japanese directly in Endnote6 AT ALL. Only way to enter
Japanese in Endnote 6 is to copy Japanese text from another
application. Why ISI put this kind of silly limitation, I do not know
or understand. It is quite frustrating.
I am hoping someday there would be a Mac version of
Getaref, <http://www.getaref.com/> which is already internationalized
(or localized, maybe) on the other platform, while Endnote officially
dropped support for Japanese at around Endnote 3.

Hope this helps.

Koichi

Re: Exporting Japanese characters
Author: MORI Koichi    Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:26:23 +0900
Dear Helen (and those who use Japanese with Endnote),
At 11:08 +1000 03.4.26, Helen Kilpatrick UOW wrote:
>Does anyone know how to export Japanese text, perfectly legible in
>Endnote 5
>libraries, into Word98 where it becomes gobbledegook.
I assume you are using a Mac on System 9 or 8.
Though I use Mac OS X now, this was problematic to me, too. There are
several issues involved. Below are what I recall and may not be exact,
but I hope you can get the idea.

If you set the library and display fonts something Japanese, you
probably do not have individual references with Japanese font. Since
those references will be pasted into Word without font or language set
explicitly, they obey the global settings in the normal template of
Word, which probably are for English in your case. This mismatch makes
all Japanese text treated as English in Word.

Solution 1: Change fonts of all Japanese references explicitly as
Japanese (Saimincho, chu-gothic etc) other than Osaka. Osaka would be
interpreted as a System font, like Geneva, and would not be explicitly
used when copying and pasting. You have to do this on all the entry
items (authors, title, journal name) of each reference. If you set the
reference display font as Times or other alphabetic font, you can
catch the omission easily, since you cannot read them as Japanese.

Solution 2:
(1) before pasting into Word, put the keyboard (or input method)
in the Japanese mode,
(2) set the font at the cursor to be something Japanese,
(3) then paste with the format selected as text.
This way, you lose nice format (bold, italic etc), but you get
Japanese readable. This method also works when you already have the
gibberish in Word. You can copy the unreadable part to the clipboard
and do the same steps. In some other word processors, you may have to
set national code properly (I do not think this applied to Word98).


>Neither have I been able to copy and paste (Japanese text) from Word to
>Endnotes or vice versa despite it being legible
>in both.
 The other way is more problematic. Endnote 5 is sometimes
very stubborn. I myself have not fully grasped how Endnote works
(or does not work) re. Japanese.
(1) You probably have to make the Japanese input method open in
the Japanese HIRAKANA input mode,
(2) and to set the font as something Japanese in Endnote, before pasting.
(3) If above fails, your chances may be better if you go through
a text only editor (YooEdit may be handy) to remove any style
information from Word before pasting into Endnote: you first paste
in an editor, and copy the same text and then paste it in Endnote,
after (1) and (2). Simply cutting the gibberish and re-pasting within
Endnote does not work. It probably keeps track of font information in
the clipboard even if you follow the steps (1) and (2).

By the way, copying Japanese into EndNote 6 works better. However, you
cannot enter Japanese directly in Endnote6 AT ALL. Only way to enter
Japanese in Endnote 6 is to copy Japanese text from another
application. Why ISI put this kind of silly limitation, I do not know
or understand. It is quite frustrating.
I am hoping someday there would be a Mac version of
Getaref, <http://www.getaref.com/> which is already internationalized
(or localized, maybe) on the other platform, while Endnote officially
dropped support for Japanese at around Endnote 3.

Hope this helps.

Koichi

Re: Exporting Japanese characters
Author: Helen Kilpatrick UOW    Posted: Thu, 01 May 2003 18:31:45 +1000
Dear Koichi,
Thanks for your advice - I've briefly tried your solutions with no
success yet. I'm just wondering though, whether I should upgrade. For
instance, if I upgraded to OSX (I'm on 9.2) and to Endnote 6 do you know if
my endnote references with Japanese text would stay intact? And are you
able to generate bibliographies successfully (with Japanese text) with OSX
and Endnote 6 (in Word 98)? (At this stage, I'm looking at deleting all the
Japanese in endnote and just keeping the romanji to create my PhD
bibliography.)

Thanks for any more advice you can offer. It's great to know there is
someone else out there who is trying to do similar things.

Cheers,

Helen

MORI Koichi wrote:

> Dear Helen (and those who use Japanese with Endnote),
> At 11:08 +1000 03.4.26, Helen Kilpatrick UOW wrote:
> >Does anyone know how to export Japanese text, perfectly legible in
> >Endnote 5
> >libraries, into Word98 where it becomes gobbledegook.
> I assume you are using a Mac on System 9 or 8.
> Though I use Mac OS X now, this was problematic to me, too. There are
> several issues involved. Below are what I recall and may not be exact,
> but I hope you can get the idea.
>
> If you set the library and display fonts something Japanese, you
> probably do not have individual references with Japanese font. Since
> those references will be pasted into Word without font or language set
> explicitly, they obey the global settings in the normal template of
> Word, which probably are for English in your case. This mismatch makes
> all Japanese text treated as English in Word.
>
> Solution 1: Change fonts of all Japanese references explicitly as
> Japanese (Saimincho, chu-gothic etc) other than Osaka. Osaka would be
> interpreted as a System font, like Geneva, and would not be explicitly
> used when copying and pasting. You have to do this on all the entry
> items (authors, title, journal name) of each reference. If you set the
> reference display font as Times or other alphabetic font, you can
> catch the omission easily, since you cannot read them as Japanese.
>
> Solution 2:
> (1) before pasting into Word, put the keyboard (or input method)
> in the Japanese mode,
> (2) set the font at the cursor to be something Japanese,
> (3) then paste with the format selected as text.
> This way, you lose nice format (bold, italic etc), but you get
> Japanese readable. This method also works when you already have the
> gibberish in Word. You can copy the unreadable part to the clipboard
> and do the same steps. In some other word processors, you may have to
> set national code properly (I do not think this applied to Word98).
>
> >Neither have I been able to copy and paste (Japanese text) from Word to
> >Endnotes or vice versa despite it being legible
> >in both.
>  The other way is more problematic. Endnote 5 is sometimes
> very stubborn. I myself have not fully grasped how Endnote works
> (or does not work) re. Japanese.
> (1) You probably have to make the Japanese input method open in
> the Japanese HIRAKANA input mode,
> (2) and to set the font as something Japanese in Endnote, before pasting.
> (3) If above fails, your chances may be better if you go through
> a text only editor (YooEdit may be handy) to remove any style
> information from Word before pasting into Endnote: you first paste
> in an editor, and copy the same text and then paste it in Endnote,
> after (1) and (2). Simply cutting the gibberish and re-pasting within
> Endnote does not work. It probably keeps track of font information in
> the clipboard even if you follow the steps (1) and (2).
>
> By the way, copying Japanese into EndNote 6 works better. However, you
> cannot enter Japanese directly in Endnote6 AT ALL. Only way to enter
> Japanese in Endnote 6 is to copy Japanese text from another
> application. Why ISI put this kind of silly limitation, I do not know
> or understand. It is quite frustrating.
> I am hoping someday there would be a Mac version of
> Getaref, <http://www.getaref.com/> which is already internationalized
> (or localized, maybe) on the other platform, while Endnote officially
> dropped support for Japanese at around Endnote 3.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Koichi

Re: Exporting Japanese characters
Author: MORI Koichi    Posted: Sat, 10 May 2003 03:10:57 +0900
Dear Helen and the list,
At 18:31 +1000 03.5.1, Helen Kilpatrick UOW wrote:
> Thanks for your advice - I've briefly tried your solutions with no
>success yet.
Is it possible to import simple Japanese text (without style
information) into Word? If so, you should be able to copy or export
Endnote library into a simple text file, and then import into Word, at
least in theory.
I do not have much trouble copying and pasting Japanese between
Endnote and Word. The difference between you and me may be that I use
a Japanese version of Word. You may have to tweak your standard
template or style of Word to use Japanese font as default. Perhaps
Word assigns Roman font when you paste anything as text if the default
font is Roman.
Also in EndNote, make sure that you set the general font to be
Roman so that you can explicitly assign a Japanese font to Japanese
texts AND output style templates. Otherwise, your Japanese texts would
be interpreted to bear no font, which would be treated as Roman in
Word. With those precautions, You should be able to copy-formatted
from EndNote to Word (if not, I am not sure what else to do).
In Word, there is an option to copy with style or not. This may
affect copying out Japanese into EndNote (but just a guess).

>I'm just wondering though, whether I should upgrade.
There is no merit at all for upgrading EndNote to ver. 6 except
for the ability to search PubMed from within EndNote without crashing.

>For
>instance, if I upgraded to OSX (I'm on 9.2) and to Endnote 6 do you know if
>my endnote references with Japanese text would stay intact?
Yes. All Japanese texts in older EndNote files look all right in
EndNote 6. Actually, certain Japanese characters that were not
displayed correctly in ver. 5 seem to show OK in ver. 6.

>And are you
>able to generate bibliographies successfully (with Japanese text) with OSX
>and Endnote 6 (in Word 98)?
No. EndNote 6 does not work with Word 98. It only works with Word
X. If you purchase EndNote 6, it includes EndNote 5. You should use
EndNote 5 with Word 98. EndNote 6 cannot scan files generated by Word
98 or any other application.
Word X becomes unstable with EndNote 6. You cannot use autosave
feature of Word X while you are dealing with RTF files. I have removed
EndNote 6 module from Word X. I can scan RTF or text files with
EndNote 3J or 5 for formatting, but Word X does not seem to be able to
read Japanese well in RTF files generated by EndNote. Most likely, you
have to use Word 98 or 2001 to read those RTF files.
The major reason I upgraded EndNote to 6 is its ability to search
PubMed directly. The reason I upgraded Word 98 to 2001 and 2001 to X
is to gain compatibility with WinWord and stability. You would gain a
bit of stability from Word 98 to 2001 transition, and also from 2001
to X. Though Word X crashes almost as often as Word 2001 if you use
complex docs, or have EndNote 6 installed, Word X seldom takes the
system with it when it crashes, as Word 2001 or 98 often does.
If compatibility with other people using Word is not the issue
for you, you may be happier with a simple text editor like YooEdit or
Jedit and EndNote 5 than with Word. If you must use a word processor,
Nisus Writer may be a better choice. There is a free older version of
Nisus Writer that is quite usable and whose file format is supported
by EndNote 5 through "scan paper", though printing mixed Japanese and
English sometimes result in overlapped characters.
<http://www.nisus.com/>

>(At this stage, I'm looking at deleting all the
>Japanese in endnote and just keeping the romanji to create my PhD
>bibliography.)
I hope you have not deleted your refs in Japanese yet.

Cheers,

Koichi

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